Horizon League to add 10th member

[go guins]

The $$/win is limited in it's usefulness, particularly since it doesn't factor in SOS.

But I do think it has some usefulness. Imagine, for example, if YSU was a member of the OVC or NEC in all sports.  Our win # would increase (the last place HL team, YSU, defeated the NEC champion...in their home), and our travel expenses (especially in FB) would decline.

There would be a significant improvement in winning per dollar spent.

In these days of limited budgets for athletics...its something to consider, IMO.

 And you think this makes sense?  What limited budgets are you talking about?  The one guaranteed profit business in America is universities.   Yes, YSU’s 1014 budget is down slightly, but not as much as enrollment is down, IE spending per student is up.  And when the total university spending is down slightly the spending for sports was up, and this isn’t the first year that has been true. 
If you see value in your bizarre $/wins, then what is the value you see?

[Penguin Nation]

The $$/win is limited in it's usefulness, particularly since it doesn't factor in SOS.

But I do think it has some usefulness. Imagine, for example, if YSU was a member of the OVC or NEC in all sports.  Our win # would increase (the last place HL team, YSU, defeated the NEC champion...in their home), and our travel expenses (especially in FB) would decline.

There would be a significant improvement in winning per dollar spent.

In these days of limited budgets for athletics...its something to consider, IMO.

 And you think this makes sense?  What limited budgets are you talking about?  The one guaranteed profit business in America is universities.   Yes, YSU’s 1014 budget is down slightly, but not as much as enrollment is down, IE spending per student is up.  And when the total university spending is down slightly the spending for sports was up, and this isn’t the first year that has been true. 
If you see value in your bizarre $/wins, then what is the value you see?

It's one metric among many.

I hope that at least once a year, the Athletic Department brain trust sits down and analyzes everything in detail...scheduling...promotions...conference affiliation....coaching quality....and how to maximize revenue and limit expenses.

Without going into a big thing...I think the MVFC is a great example of a low ROI for YSU's investment.  Except for the 2014 season, the MVFC members have been screwed over by the playoff selection committee every year.  Our SOS due to a MVFC conference schedule is very high, therefore our W/L record is lower, and our travel expenses are very high.

In the OVC, NEC, or even CAA, we would have a a better W/L record and lower expenses and more playoff appearances.

Having five teams from the MVFC chosen by the playoff committee in 2014 gives me hope that YSU may not be so ill served by its MVFC membership as it was in the past.

Anyway, I don't fully understand your comment.  I think you surely acknowledge YSU has limited resources for athletics.  If not, I want to know why there aren't seat warmers for every seat in Stambaugh Stadium.  Again, $$/win is one way of looking at ROI. 

[go guins]

IMO, ROI and public education don't go together at all.  Look at the inventment in the band and the ROI for bands?  Expense, tons, Return -0- 

"I hope that at least once a year, the Athletic Department brain trust sits down and analyzes everything in detail...scheduling...promotions...conference affiliation....coaching quality....and how to maximize revenue and limit expenses."
If this doesn't happen, they somebody (several bodies) should be fired.  But to analysis as you describe in the previous sentence makes sense, to put some ROI calculation in place is just a waste of time.

YOUR comment: "In these days of limited budgets for athletics."
My point is YSU is increasing spending on athletics faster than the rate of inflation, so I don't see the "limied budgets" you are refering to.  Obviously there would be no need for an "unlimited budget" so by definitation all budgets are "limited" but you are implying something I'm not seeing.

[SoupCity]

Dayton Daily News is reporting that Northern Kentucky is the newest member.

[ysuguins4]

Now that we'll have a home and home with the Norse, maybe they'll remove Wilberforce from the schedule.

[Dmorton]

get rid of Westminster and Thiel while you're at it!

[ELPENGUIN]

We must play the Wilberforce's and Westminster's of the world to get home games and use these games as contests to test your strength and weaknesses and to find that solid block of 8 that will be the lineup for the Horizon League schedule. We do not have the pesos to bring in opponents who demand a high fee or a 4 to 1 return contract.  Do you not understand how scheduling works?

[Penguin Nation]

I'm not buying it......we don't have to have a feeble OOC schedule that is less exciting to the fans than reruns of The Lawrence Welk Show.....here's the UWGB schedule.....another HL school with only a modestly larger athletic budget to YSU.

http://www.greenbayphoenix.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=109993&SPID=13663&DB_OEM_ID=22500&Q_SEASON=2014

[IAA Fan]

Yes I see that schedule, it has as much junk as our ...probably 1 team more:

Ripon basketball (basically high school).
Springfield University ...did they not just move up and become part of the state system ...used to be NAIA. Not sure but I think they are DIII.
Minnesota Deluth DII
Drake
Morehead:
GA State

Drake and Morehead are not the teams of old.


Then UWGB plays one "can be" solid Mid-Major in Chicago State before they go into conference play. That is their bracket-buster return.

I do not see your point. The only team on that schedule that should be competitive with Green Bay is Chicago State. Now if your point is that we need to seek out tournaments ...then I would agree. However, Slocum & Strollo have had some recent success there.

[Penguin Nation]

Wisky, FGCU, Miami (who they beat), and Evansville.....and you don't see significant differences in our OOC schedules?

Ripon was an exhibition FWIW.

I'm not opposed to scheduling a few creampuffs to give the fans some red meat...and give the entire roster some playing time....but seriously...we need some opponents to excite the fans.  I agree w/ MAC opponents...especially local ones like Kent....and I liked prior games against GWU and GA...both of which we won.....but those types of opponents should be an annual occurrence.

[IAA Fan]

I thought you were complaining about home schedule?

Okay in 2014-15 our tourney was a MAC school tourney; as I said we should seek out better tournaments. However, I also think we should take any MAC or MVC contest that we can get. We played Illinois State & Texas A&M on the road.

Robert Morris, Duquesne, Kent & Pitt should be annuals & almost are. However, you will have to give Duquesne and RMU football games to get the basketball; which we have done.

The year prior we were at the Kennesaw Tournament. Also Kent, St John's and Pitt.

Then we had Georgia, GWU and S. Florida.


There is just way too much talk about what I think is almost a non-issue. When we are winning 20+ games a season and we are turned down for the NCAA or NIT because of our schedule ...then my schedule concerns will go up. Yes I want bigger tournaments and try to get bigger home games but that is not going to happen. It took Butler back-to-back NCAA finals and a move to the Big East to get those games.

[Penguin Nation]

A home and home with UNI and NDSU...both in the NCAA tournament...would also be a nice OOC upgrade...

[IAA Fan]

Agreed on UNI and NDSU ...but not going to be as big a draw as Kent, Akron or BG.

Clark Kellogg was talking on ESPN a couple of years ago. I do not recall, which of the two NCAA final years it was. However, he noted that year Butler played 5 top-25 teams (4 of those being top-20) ...their record was 5-0 & they were all on-the-road. He echoed Butler's complaint that Mid-Major teams were never going to get the home games. If they want big games they have to go on the road. Clark noted the irony of Butler going (in 1-year) from a team that nobody ever heard of, so it was impossible to get a home game against a top-25 team ...to a team that nobody wanted to play in Indianapolis because they did not want the loss.

We have a long way to go to be that kind of mid-major power. We would also have to step up to at least the MVC (for recruits) & then the facilities complaints will start. Right now I would love to have a regularly-successful women's team & let the men go as they will until we get the ladies were we want them to be. It is dramatically more simple for YSU to see success in women's programs ...so why not take the easier path & dedicate men's monies to football and keeping some of the endangered sports ...all of which are men's? Believe me, a successful YSU women's basketball program will see some of the best attendance for a mid-major programs in the Midwest. There will be thousands. The people of Youngstown take a lot of pride in their teams   ...but they need to win.

[go guins]

For many years I heard and participated in this mid-major argument and it never gets anywhere.  Truth is the only solution is 1AA basketball, just like football.  (And no FBS-FCS crap either! 1A & 1AA)  I wonder how they justify the FBS when they are playing a football national championship tournament at 1A now?