Recruiting Youngstown & Success Outside of Football

[go guins]

I occasionally make the case that the football and mbb programs suffer with the penalty of having downtown Youngstown OH to offer as a location.  I'm pretty sure none of us vacation in Y-Town, so it's a point I'm sure we can agree is pretty negative. 
I still believe this is true, but it doesn't seem to affect things like men’s golf, softball, women’s bb both track & tennis programs and cross country.
Anybody have any observations/theories to offer?
The other point make occasionally on this blog is the local talent pool is too think and we have to recruit nationallly.  That appears true in football and mbb too, but again, not in any of the other sports listed.  I don't get it. 

[IAA Fan]

Sure go guins. Women's sports and minor men's sports have only recently seen serious scholarship dollars. In the old days, football players came on scholarship and played baseball as something to do in the spring to get out of off-season training. Now baseball is specialized like all other sports & require their own budgets. Title-IX has made the cutbacks in minor men's sports scholarships even worse; so there are a great number of premium male athletes out there (in minor sports) & any time they can get a DI offer, they grab it. So a school like YSU gets a much higher caliber of minor men's sport athlete (track & field, golf, tennis, etc.) for their dollar. Likewise, the sports that are hurt the worse are those men's minor sports that require large numbers of players ...Track and Field, Swimming & Diving and Baseball. This is why YSU dropped men's Swimming & Diving, came one vote shy of dropping baseball just a couple years ago ...looking for a way to funnel dollars into men's basketball. Indoor track in particular (which requires many less athletes than outdoor competition). As much as we hate to admit it, MBB (as compared to FB) is a minor men's sport at YSU. Sure we can offer enough MBB scholarships to build a team; but not a deep team offering all the "bells and whistles".

As to women's sports ...the DI minimums under title-IX are so much more than a school like YSU can afford; but everyone else is "in the same boat" and as so many schools were non-compliant with Title-IX deadlines approaching; the government and NCAA felt the need to help out. Notice how we really do not do as well in the larger women's sports either ...softball, swimming and volleyball; but tennis and track have been stellar, with solid success in WBB as well. Note there was a long period of time (as a DI program) where we only had ladies diving and almost no swimmers. Yet we were very, very good in diving. Anderson has done a very good job resurrecting our program with just a handful of scholarships ...8 top-5 finishes in swimming and 5 top-5 finishes in diving last year. That broke a record that we set the year prior. My hat is off to coaches Anderson and Gavolas.

In short, there are less scholarships for those sports you mentioned and a large number of athletes that do not care about the downtown over a chance to obtain a full DI-scholarship. I mean let's be real ...there are not too many FB players happy to receive strictly COT or COTB. (Cost of Tuition / Cost of Tuition and Board). This has far more to do with the downturn in your FB program than the loss of Tressel, the hiring of Heacock or Wolf. This is also a reason why your women and minor men's athletes have the highest GPA's ...grab a kid that is smart and he does not take up an athletic scholarship ...he can have an academic scholarship.

Sorry to tackle 6 topics in one post.

[go guins]

I don't buy your arguments.
What you say about YSU applies equally to every single 1AA program in the country.  We are far more competitve in the sports I listed than in the big 2, (MBB and FB)  Anythiing you say about fewer scollarships etc. applies to each of our league competitors equally.  We have -0- advantage over any of them and yet do much better even without a strong track record.  (good grief we only started track recently, we have -0- history)  And what about local talent? 

[ytownchief22]

The talent pool has diminished some in the past couple years around this area, but there are still some solid ball players. Bo has taken on more local kids in his 1.5 years then Wolf probably ever did so we will see how it works out.

[Wick250]

Go Guins,

Your thesis about the impact of downtown Youngstown does not hold up.  During the 1990s, downtown was a mess, suffering the full impact of the loss of those steel mills.  Boarded up buildings everywhere.  Yet the 1990s were the Golden Age for YSU sports: four football titles, three women's NCAA appearances, even a conference final for the men.  In fact, the 1997-98 academic year was the single best sports year in our history: the fourth football title, the women beating Memphis in the tournament, the men under Dan Peters playing for the conference title but losing.  Today, downtown Youngstown has reinvented itself.  New government buildings, the world class business incubator, the additive manufacturing center, the Covelli Center, new apartments and gentrification, an artistic colony, cultural venues, and various watering holes.

Obviously, we are not going to recruit the kid that places a high priority on going to a party school.  But beyond that, location and facilities are secondary to the relationship between the recruit and the coach.  We are successful in track and women's hoops because we have good coaches.  We lose in men's basketball and other Olympic sports because we have bad coaches.

[Penguin Nation]

No one vacations in Fargo.

It's not location, it's leadership. or an epic lack thereof.

[IAA Fan]

I agree ...it does apply equally. In the Horizon, it seems like most every school used to have a strong sport, that is not part of the conference. We are football, CSU is wrestling/lacrosse and fencing, UDM is lacrosse and fencing, UWGB is bigger in Nordic skiing that we are in FB, UWM hands out scholarships in large men's sports in soccer and S&D (those happen to be Horizon sports), UIC are very big in Gymnastics. Most of the newer schools to the conference barely are DI and do not offer much outside of the required conference athletics. As you say they are similar

Yet many of the other schools in our conferences, as a whole, are not as nice as YSU: none of them have our facilities (although I cannot speak for a couple of the newer schools that I have not seen). Take a drive and visit the former Butler some time. Take a walk down Hampton Ave. How about UIC & the former Loyola ...in the heart of Chicago. WIU is nothing and SIU is a corn field. We have all been to Pitt and the nicest part of that college is the part that is actually a part of Carnegie Mellon. Yet what player does not want to play om Heinz Field?

 I think the key to much of this is local talent ...they already know what Youngstown is all about. As our campus becomes nicer and nicer (which it clearly is) this is going to overshadow much of the city's issues and attract local talent. President Tressel's commitment to the city is phenomenal and he continues to make YSU the focal point of the city of Youngstown. Let's hope that sense of pride grows among the student body.

What Wick is saying is true. I remember the parade for the '91 team, the city hired many people to decorate old abandoned buildings.

[Penguin Nation]

I'll use FAU as an example since my daughter studies there, and also it has multiple YSU connections.  Carl P was a HC there, and YSU and FAU traded a home and home and each went 1-1 if I recall correctly in the early 90s.  They are G5 so are still similarly situated in terms of level of competition IMO.  SIU is the opponent in this years opener.

Anyway, FAU has a nearly brand new stadium which has hosted bowl games, and from which you can see the Atlantic Ocean.  If there ever was a University which had location as a selling point to recruits, it is FAU.

FAU FB went 3-9 the past two seasons.

The success or failure of a football program doesn't depend on location, but rather its leadership. What else could it be?  Solar flares, turtle dove migratory patterns?  No, its the individuals in "leadership" roles.

MBB and FB will remain pretty close to what it has been for the past ten years, with some inevitable variations.  BP will improve the program, I think, and then leave when NE $$ runs out.  If we are content with the state of FB and MBB, then we should maintain the same "leadership" we have had for over 10 years.

[go guins]

Go Guins,

Your thesis about the impact of downtown Youngstown does not hold up.  During the 1990s, downtown was a mess, suffering the full impact of the loss of those steel mills.  Boarded up buildings everywhere.  Yet the 1990s were the Golden Age for YSU sports: four football titles, three women's NCAA appearances, even a conference final for the men.  In fact, the 1997-98 academic year was the single best sports year in our history: the fourth football title, the women beating Memphis in the tournament, the men under Dan Peters playing for the conference title but losing.  Today, downtown Youngstown has reinvented itself.  New government buildings, the world class business incubator, the additive manufacturing center, the Covelli Center, new apartments and gentrification, an artistic colony, cultural venues, and various watering holes.

Obviously, we are not going to recruit the kid that places a high priority on going to a party school.  But beyond that, location and facilities are secondary to the relationship between the recruit and the coach.  We are successful in track and women's hoops because we have good coaches.  We lose in men's basketball and other Olympic sports because we have bad coaches.

No, the '90s was the Golden Age of Jim Tressel! 

"Today, downtown Youngstown has reinvented itself.  New government buildings, the world class business incubator, the additive manufacturing center, the Covelli Center, new apartments and gentrification, an artistic colony, cultural venues, and various watering holes."
Drinking too much of the the cool-aid Wick!  Read the damn crime report in the Vindy!  The city of Youngstown is a REAL NEGATIVE to YSU.

I believe the good coach bad coach answer is just a cop-out, but whatever.  If you guys are happy with the state of afairs in Youngstown, that's fine with me. I'll stay away except to football home games and you enjoy your walk down the city streets after dark! 

[go guins]

Here is the "reinvented" Youngstown:

These Are The 10 Worst Places To Live In Ohio

We used science to determine which Buckeye State cities are the real pits.


Nick James, RoadSnacks
June 30, 2015 - 435,158 views
#1 Youngstown                                         (please note the 435,000 views, that's what hurts)

10 Worst Places to Live in America
Aaron Crowe, WalletPop

1
COMMENTJoin the Discussion
You don't need the US Misery Index to tell you that things are bad in some parts of the US. Unemployment is near or at all-time highs in many parts of the country, foreclosures continue to happen at unprecedented rates and there are some very real indicators that we are heading toward a double-dip recession.
"Northern Ohio has seen 309 public officials convicted of crimes over the past 10 years"

[Wick250]

The Golden Age of Jim Tressel and Ed Digregorio, and Dan Peters.  The only time in the Division I era when our three major sports were highly competitive simultaneously.  And it was all due to GOOD COACHES.

If you don't understand that downtown Youngstown today is vastly superior to the sorry state it was in during the 1990s, it is pointless for me to attempt to discuss this with you any further.

[ytownchief22]

Win and they will come..... You think all players enjoy living in Fargo, ND?

[IAA Fan]

You think all players enjoy living in Fargo, ND?

Hon? Prowler needs a jump.

[go guins]

[quote
If you don't understand that downtown Youngstown today is vastly superior to the sorry state it was in during the 1990s, it is pointless for me to attempt to discuss this with you any further.
[/quote]
Seriously?  In the 90's jobs were going away, but the long term affects were far from fruition.  The deterioration of the education system, quality of life, crime, dilapidated buildings, abandoned and closed businesses FAR exceed anything from the 90’s
“it is pointless for me to attempt to discuss this with you any further.”
DITTO to you and your rose colored glasses!

[go guins]

Win and they will come..... You think all players enjoy living in Fargo, ND?

I'd far rather go to Fargo than Youngstown!  Anybody just go down town and drive around the neighborhoods.  IT'S A DAMN SLUM.  Love the university and the football team, hate the town.
You Y-town lovers are welcome to it.