Athletic Budget

[IAA Fan]

The problem is where do we go? We’re on an FCS island. The nearby programs are only limited scholarship programs.

Agree. Although the one team/conference is going full scholarship. Something else to consider. I will NEVER be able to go to any kind of weekday games (MAC). Also people will not like the idea of no championship possibility, no matter if we know the teams or not. If we do not know the teams in the MVFC by now, it is our own fault and just do not care to know.

I think the conference split will help and YSU has to just stay the course.

[Kandrase]

The problem is where do we go? We’re on an FCS island. The nearby programs are only limited scholarship programs.

Agree. Although the one team/conference is going full scholarship. Something else to consider. I will NEVER be able to go to any kind of weekday games (MAC). Also people will not like the idea of no championship possibility, no matter if we know the teams or not. If we do not know the teams in the MVFC by now, it is our own fault and just do not care to know.

I think the conference split will help and YSU has to just stay the course.

Geography is kinda tough for us, it’s like why NDSU won’t go FBS… what conference would they join? They are really far away from everyone except for big ten or big twelve schools and NDSU doesn’t have the market size or facilities to make a jump to a P5 conference.

, I think a reckoning is coming in college football and now isn’t really a good time to move.

[guinpen]

The problem is where do we go? We’re on an FCS island. The nearby programs are only limited scholarship programs.

Agree. Although the one team/conference is going full scholarship. Something else to consider. I will NEVER be able to go to any kind of weekday games (MAC). Also people will not like the idea of no championship possibility, no matter if we know the teams or not. If we do not know the teams in the MVFC by now, it is our own fault and just do not care to know.

I think the conference split will help and YSU has to just stay the course.

Geography is kinda tough for us, it’s like why NDSU won’t go FBS… what conference would they join? They are really far away from everyone except for big ten or big twelve schools and NDSU doesn’t have the market size or facilities to make a jump to a P5 conference.

, I think a reckoning is coming in college football and now isn’t really a good time to move.

I think that I could live w/o playoffs if the tradeoff was beating the zits, cant and the bobby cats. I agree that if the league goes two  division that would help a little bit. Depends on how many teams from the other division we would have to play each year, the less the better.

I have been saying or at least hoping that there would be a day of reckoning, it is taking longer than I thought but still think it will happen.

[IAA Fan]

I have heard several names in reference to a split. RMU, EKU and Austin Peay are the names that continue to surface. That is a huge jump for RMU and APSU.

[guinpen]

is there a place to easily look at the budget for various schools or does it just take some digging?

[Kandrase]

I have heard several names in reference to a split. RMU, EKU and Austin Peay are the names that continue to surface. That is a huge jump for RMU and APSU.

What do you mean? Split from what

[Penguin Nation]

2022 will mark YSU's 25th year as a member in the Gateway/MVFC. When we joined there was no team with the name "Dakota" in it. A few years before YSU joining, there were four teams with the name "Illinois" in it (Eastern Illinois left in 1995).

The MVFC is not the conference we joined. Even the name is different. The conference has moved westward and is now dominated by the western schools.

If I were Patty, who will have been commissioner for 40 years (!) in 2022, I'd continue the westward expansion and lure the dominant BSC teams (Griz, EWU, MSU) into the MVFC, and the membership numbers will be able to withstand attrition if the underperforming eastern schools atrophy away.

If I were the CAA, I'd consider YSU as part of its announced expansion, and place YSU in its proposed Northern division. Geographically this would make sense for YSU. However, there seems to be no mention of this, anywhere.

https://richmond.com/sports/college/james-madison/caa-exploring-expansion-two-division-setup-that-would-reduce-travel-costs/article_4ee9823d-9db6-54eb-a34f-d152ab6de602.html

Other options for YSU include the NEC and the moribund OVC. Although there would be undeniable benefits with travel costs, these would represent an official unconditional surrender of the "Team of the 1990s" and we'd simply exist as a program with no expectations of FCS dominance....and maybe that's ok.

Things may look very different soon. I still suspect an Ohio-centered FCS conference is possible when MAC East programs face the realities of basic math. Until then...fire your incompetent AD who will guarantee failure despite whatever opportunities arise....and stay with the big dogs in the MVFC.

[guinpen]

2022 will mark YSU's 25th year as a member in the Gateway/MVFC. When we joined there was no team with the name "Dakota" in it. A few years before YSU joining, there were four teams with the name "Illinois" in it (Eastern Illinois left in 1995).

The MVFC is not the conference we joined. Even the name is different. The conference has moved westward and is now dominated by the western schools.

If I were Patty, who will have been commissioner for 40 years (!) in 2022, I'd continue the westward expansion and lure the dominant BSC teams (Griz, EWU, MSU) into the MVFC, and the membership numbers will be able to withstand attrition if the underperforming eastern schools atrophy away.

If I were the CAA, I'd consider YSU as part of its announced expansion, and place YSU in its proposed Northern division. Geographically this would make sense for YSU. However, there seems to be no mention of this, anywhere.

https://richmond.com/sports/college/james-madison/caa-exploring-expansion-two-division-setup-that-would-reduce-travel-costs/article_4ee9823d-9db6-54eb-a34f-d152ab6de602.html

Other options for YSU include the NEC and the moribund OVC. Although there would be undeniable benefits with travel costs, these would represent an official unconditional surrender of the "Team of the 1990s" and we'd simply exist as a program with no expectations of FCS dominance....and maybe that's ok.

Things may look very different soon. I still suspect an Ohio-centered FCS conference is possible when MAC East programs face the realities of basic math. Until then...fire your incompetent AD who will guarantee failure despite whatever opportunities arise....and stay with the big dogs in the MVFC.

Nice read,

So how does our budget compare to the CAA?

An Ohio league would be best but unlikely to happen while I am alive. CAA would be better than where we are now. OVC not an option anymore, too much unrest.

We were and always will be the team of the nineties, that can never be taken away, no matter what league we may be in. You can't change history!

[Penguin Nation]

2022 will mark YSU's 25th year as a member in the Gateway/MVFC. When we joined there was no team with the name "Dakota" in it. A few years before YSU joining, there were four teams with the name "Illinois" in it (Eastern Illinois left in 1995).

The MVFC is not the conference we joined. Even the name is different. The conference has moved westward and is now dominated by the western schools.

If I were Patty, who will have been commissioner for 40 years (!) in 2022, I'd continue the westward expansion and lure the dominant BSC teams (Griz, EWU, MSU) into the MVFC, and the membership numbers will be able to withstand attrition if the underperforming eastern schools atrophy away.

If I were the CAA, I'd consider YSU as part of its announced expansion, and place YSU in its proposed Northern division. Geographically this would make sense for YSU. However, there seems to be no mention of this, anywhere.

https://richmond.com/sports/college/james-madison/caa-exploring-expansion-two-division-setup-that-would-reduce-travel-costs/article_4ee9823d-9db6-54eb-a34f-d152ab6de602.html

Other options for YSU include the NEC and the moribund OVC. Although there would be undeniable benefits with travel costs, these would represent an official unconditional surrender of the "Team of the 1990s" and we'd simply exist as a program with no expectations of FCS dominance....and maybe that's ok.

Things may look very different soon. I still suspect an Ohio-centered FCS conference is possible when MAC East programs face the realities of basic math. Until then...fire your incompetent AD who will guarantee failure despite whatever opportunities arise....and stay with the big dogs in the MVFC.

Nice read,

So how does our budget compare to the CAA?

An Ohio league would be best but unlikely to happen while I am alive. CAA would be better than where we are now. OVC not an option anymore, too much unrest.

We were and always will be the team of the nineties, that can never be taken away, no matter what league we may be in. You can't change history!

Agree about the Ohio FCS league. It's a long shot. Maybe Women's Lacrosse being in the MAC is a step in that direction.

Before we blame the failures of the revenue sports on the budget, according to this source, YSU FB revenue is average for the MVFC.

https://www.inforum.com/bison-media-zone/mens-sports/football/6243728-McFeely-blog-Bison-rank-8th-in-FCS-in-revenue-generated-by-football-according-to-U.S.-Department-of-Education-data

YSU is increasing its Athletic Budget from $13M to $14M.

https://www.wfmj.com/story/45112365/ysu-weighs-in-on-increasing-athletic-budget-amidst-academic-programs-being-cut

Here's CAA Athletic budgets for FB, MBB, and WBB...which seems similar to or less than YSU's budget.

https://richmond.com/sports/college/william-and-mary/caa-budgets-for-football-and-basketball/article_6aa2f8a1-5b23-50b4-a91f-91458f6dd6e6.html

Sure McCafferty trophies are nice...but Youngstown is a FB town with a FB history...and FB generates revenue and Olympic sports spend it even if you factor in the trivial increase in enrollment they create.

Someone correct me if my sources, figures, or conclusions are amiss...but something doesn't smell right.  I'm not seeing that YSU FB is underfunded....just incompetently mismanaged....or worse.

[33Y0]

MVC Average vs YSU Expenditures

Undergrads
MVC: 10,892
YSU: 8,576
Difference: -2,316

Men's Basketball Expenses
MVC: $2.7 million
YSU: $1.7 million
Difference: -$1.0 million

Women's Basketball Expenses
MVC: $1.3 million
YSU: $1.1 million
Difference: -$220,000

Football Expenses
MVC: $5.0 million
YSU: $4.4 million
Difference: -$534,000

Total Expenses
MVC: $20.2 million
YSU: $16.2 million
Difference: -$3.9 million

MAC Average vs YSU

Undergrads
MAC: 14,234
YSU: 8,576
Difference: -5,658

Men's Basketball Expenses
MAC: $2.3 million
YSU: $1.7 million
Difference: -$598,000

Women's Basketball Expenses
MAC: $1.6 million
YSU: $1.1 million
Difference: -$447,000

Football Expenses
MAC: $8.2 million
YSU: $4.4 million
Difference: -$3.8 million

Total Expenses
MAC: $29.4 million
YSU: $16.2 million
Difference: -$13.1 million

Horizon League Average vs YSU

Undergrads
HL: 10,962
YSU: 8,576
Difference: -2,386

Men's Basketball Expenses
HL: $2.4 million
YSU: $1.7 million
Difference: -$771,000

Women's Basketball Expenses
HL: $1.4 million
YSU: $1.1 million
Difference: -$272,000

Total Expenses
HL: $14.5 million
YSU: $16.2 million
Difference: +$1.7 million

League Sponsored Sports
HL: $8.9 million
YSU: $7.6 million
Difference: -$1.2 million

[33Y0]

MVC Average vs YSU Revenue

Total Football Expenses
MVC: $5.0 million
YSU: $4.4 million
Difference: -$534,000

Total Earned Football Revenue
MVC: $1.1 million
YSU: $1.7 million
Difference: +$597,000

% of Earned Income vs Total Expenses
MVC: 23%
YSU: 40%
Difference: +17%

Total Institutional Investment
MVC: $3.8 million
YSU: $2.7 million
Difference: -$1.1 million

Horizon League Men's Basketball Average vs YSU Revenue

Total Men's Basketball Expenses
HL: $2.2 million
YSU: $1.7 million
Difference: -$534,000

Total Earned Men's Basketball Revenue
HL: $581,800
YSU: $666,203
Difference: +$84,403

% of Earned Income vs Total Expenses
HL: 26%
YSU: 39%
Difference: +13%

Total Institutional Investment
HL: $1.6 million
YSU: $1.0 million
Difference: -$618,000

Horizon League - Total vs YSU

Total Athletically Generated Revenue
HL: $2.2 million
YSU: $4.6 million
Difference: +$2.3 million

Total Expenses:
HL: $14.5 million
YSU: $16.2 million
Difference: +$1.7 million

% of Income vs Total Expenses
HL: 16%
YSU: 28%
Difference: +12%

Total Institutional Investment
HL: $12.2 million
YSU: $11.6 million
Difference: -$520,000

[Wick250]

Excellent posts this evening. The data provided by 33YO is highly revealing. We clearly generate more revenue and receive less institutional support than our rivals in the two leagues.  You could make the strong argument that, from a financial perspective, we are a model of efficiency for a mid-major athletic program. (Not to be confused with decades of poor personnel decisions.)

[Penguin Nation]

MVC Average vs YSU Expenditures

Football Expenses
MVC: $5.0 million
YSU: $4.4 million
Difference: -$534,000

Assuming these figures are accurate (no source link)  with similar data collection methods (Cleveland.com mentioned it’s hard to compare these figures as schools have varying data collection methods), and there’s no outlier effect, then YSU’s FB expenses are 88% of the average MVFC program?

88% IMO does not explain the debacle of the Strollo era.

Question: Was the “Team of the 90s” the top funded program in the entire nation in the 1990s?

[IAA Fan]

MVC Average vs YSU Expenditures

Football Expenses
MVC: $5.0 million
YSU: $4.4 million
Difference: -$534,000

a$$uming these figures are accurate (no source link)  with similar data collection methods (Cleveland.com mentioned it’s hard to compare these figures as schools have varying data collection methods), and there’s no outlier effect, then YSU’s FB expenses are 88% of the average MVFC program?

88% IMO does not explain the debacle of the Strollo era.

Question: Was the “Team of the 90s” the top funded program in the entire nation in the 1990s?

Again what do you see is a debacle, I see it as an air of our greatest financial input and our greatest expansion in terms of athletics. That’s his job and he’s exceptionally good at it sorry we don’t go to a school that has only football and men’s basketball. If you’re only talking football then say that but that does not make him a bad athletic Director

[guinpen]

Looks like 8 of the 12 schools in the mac will be playing in bowl games this year. Does the school get the money or do they share with  the league? Is it enough money to off-set their money woes?

A bunch of old 1_aa schools made a bowl, doubt the money would make a huge difference for YSU budget if they moved up/