Author Topic: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz  (Read 25863 times)

Offline IAA Fan

  • Administrator
  • Emperor Penguin
  • *****
  • Posts: 12051
  • Bring Coke back to YSU!!
    • View Profile
    • ysupenguins.com
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2012, 03:47:33 PM »
Welcome aboard Bison. I don't know ...the Dakota's add some flavor & ORU has been a quality program for a long time. The Summit did lose a lot when Valpo left though. YSU was in the Summit as well. ORU also fits with the Horizon's "religious" flavor of old. At one point, all the teams in the Horizon were religiously affiliated in some fashion ...mostly Catholic.

Butler: Lutheran
Dayton: Catholic
UDM: Catholic
Xavier: Catholic
Notre Dame: Catholic (although we did not have them for basketball)
Creighton: Catholic
Loyola: Catholic
LaSalle: Catholic
Marquette: Catholic
St. Louis: Catholic
Oral Roberts: Christian (was already a member). I wonder what they are missing that they cannot come back? They left in 1987.

Oakland has come a long way. They have strong woman's programs & a quality men's basketball program.

Offline ysuindy

  • Emperor Penguin
  • *****
  • Posts: 4306
    • View Profile
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2012, 04:03:31 PM »
While the Bison would bring a better recent basketball pedigree than YSU did at the time (although YSU had a few conference champ losses to Valpo), I just don't see the big city Horizon adding Fargo that is two states away from the nearest conference school.

YSU had some pull among the presidents and had the baseball program to keep the Horizon at the NCAA minimum of 6 for an auto bid.  Oakland will get the Horizon back to 6. If Oakland doesn't work, the Bison baseball program at least gets your letter opened, but I would say the odds are not very great.

Just don't see NDSU and the Horizon - don't know what your chances for the Missouri Valley would be IF Evansville is courted by the Horizon as a replacement for Butler.


Offline ItalianPenguin

  • Emperor Penguin
  • *****
  • Posts: 1858
    • View Profile
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2012, 07:05:35 PM »
I personally don't think Butler is going anywhere. They have the world by the azz here, why switch??

Big D

  • Guest
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2012, 08:24:03 PM »
I personally don't think Butler is going anywhere. They have the world by the azz here, why switch??

It's a done deal already.  The A-10 is just waiting to finalize contracts with VCU and George Mason so they can announce all 3 school are joining the A-10 at the same time.

Offline lakesbison

  • King Penguin
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
    • View Profile
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2012, 08:53:11 PM »
Youre probably right.

NDSU dream scenario is the Mountain West or  ALL SPORTS Missouri Valley.  So I guess we'll just see what shakes out.



and ORU is already gone to the southland by the way.

Offline ItalianPenguin

  • Emperor Penguin
  • *****
  • Posts: 1858
    • View Profile
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2012, 09:43:38 PM »
I personally don't think Butler is going anywhere. They have the world by the azz here, why switch??

It's a done deal already.  The A-10 is just waiting to finalize contracts with VCU and George Mason so they can announce all 3 school are joining the A-10 at the same time.
Are you sure D? Our AD doesn't think they're going.

Offline goodnews

  • Emperor Penguin
  • *****
  • Posts: 957
    • View Profile
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2012, 10:13:10 PM »
Nothing good can happen by them leaving.  I'm sure that the AD is denying the move in fear that it may effect slocums incoming recruits?  I think I would do the same this late in the game. Especially with one of them coming from Indy.....

Big D

  • Guest
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2012, 10:57:35 PM »
I personally don't think Butler is going anywhere. They have the world by the azz here, why switch??

It's a done deal already.  The A-10 is just waiting to finalize contracts with VCU and George Mason so they can announce all 3 school are joining the A-10 at the same time.
Are you sure D? Our AD doesn't think they're going.

No offense, but I think your AD is completely out of the loop.  Everything I hear says it's a done deal.  I think LeCrone's silence the last few weeks tells you all you really need to know. 

Offline IAA Fan

  • Administrator
  • Emperor Penguin
  • *****
  • Posts: 12051
  • Bring Coke back to YSU!!
    • View Profile
    • ysupenguins.com
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2012, 06:32:00 AM »
If they are bringing in VCU & GMU ...then this whole thing makes more sense.

Offline gmoser1210

  • Rock Hopper Penguin
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2012, 03:44:19 PM »
ORU also fits with the Horizon's "religious" flavor of old. At one point, all the teams in the Horizon were religiously affiliated in some fashion ...mostly Catholic.

Butler: Lutheran


Butler is not Lutheran.  It was loosely affiliated with the Disciples of Christ denomination at one point but that ended long before the Horizon/MCC was created.  It is purely secular.
'62, '97, '98, '00, '01, '03, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11

Offline ysuguins4

  • Emperor Penguin
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
    • View Profile
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2012, 03:57:06 PM »
Plain Dealer reporting that Butler is indeed leaving for the A-10.

Offline ysuindy

  • Emperor Penguin
  • *****
  • Posts: 4306
    • View Profile
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2012, 11:22:23 AM »

Front page Sports story in today's Indy Star on the possible move - this is probably an easier read if you click on the link

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120429/SPORTS0605/204290342/Do-dollars-make-sense-Butler-join-Atlantic-10-?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s


Moving to the Atlantic 10 Conference could increase Butler's sports travel costs by more than $500,000 a year.

But that should not prevent the Indianapolis-based Bulldogs from leaving the Horizon League and joining the East Coast-based conference, according to athletic directors whose schools made similar moves.

"It's very manageable," said Xavier athletic director Mike Bobinski, whose school moved from the then-Midwestern Collegiate Conference (now Horizon) in 1995. "You have to strategize and plan for it. It's not insurmountable, by any stretch."

Richmond left the Colonial Athletic Association for the Atlantic 10 in 2001. Athletic director Jim Miller said the cost of travel was not relevant.

"What is relevant is being in the best basketball conference we can be in," Miller said.

Both athletic directors said they would welcome Butler's admission. There has been speculation that Colonial members Virginia Commonwealth and George Mason will announce as soon as this week that they will join the Atlantic 10.

All three prospective new members have reached the Final Four since 2006.

New members would not play in the Atlantic 10 until the 2013-14 school year. The league will lose Temple to the Big East after next season.

Athletic director Barry Collier has declined to comment on Butler's interest in the Atlantic 10.

Butler, as a private school, is not required to release all financial data. The Indianapolis Star obtained the most recent figures available for revenues and expenses from two public schools in the Atlantic 10 -- Massachusetts and Charlotte -- and two in the Horizon -- Milwaukee and Wright State.

Excluding UMass football, which has played in the Football Championship Subdivision (formerly I-AA), travel costs for the two A-10 schools were 41 percent greater than for the two Horizon members.

The average difference was $638,033, a steep price to pay annually. The cost could be greater than that for Butler, whose campus is 500 or more miles from eight of the 12 other A-10 members in a league that stretches from St. Louis to Charlotte to Amherst, Mass.

Horizon Commissioner Jon LeCrone didn't specify what the exit fee would be if Butler left.

Butler's motivation to join the Atlantic 10 would be to enhance its men's basketball program. Theoretically, the Bulldogs could more easily get into the NCAA tournament, increase attendance and exposure, and widen recruiting.

Butler would likely receive more from an A-10 share of NCAA tournament revenue because the conference consistently puts multiple teams in the field.

But more tournament revenue could still leave Butler with a shortfall. Charlotte's A-10 distribution was $960,289, compared with Milwaukee's $660,200. That would be a net gain of $300,089, or about half the amount of the higher travel expenses.

(UMass' distribution was about $1.3 million. A UMass spokeswoman declined to specify why the amount exceeded that of Charlotte. Distribution includes revenue for postseason appearances in sports other than basketball.)

Broadcast rights money for all four schools studied was negligible.

In a letter to trustees last month, Butler President James Danko wrote that A-10 membership was worth considering but that "we would need to undertake a full cost/benefit analysis."

Butler would earn more if basketball attendance increases in the 10,000-seat fieldhouse. Averages of the past three seasons represent the highest figures in four decades: 6,953 in 2009-10; 7,178 in 2010-11; 6,599 in 2011-12.

One option would be to reduce sports offered from 19 to the Division I minimum of 14. However, Butler would be reluctant to do so, having already dropped men's lacrosse and swimming.

Travel in individual sports -- cross-country, track, tennis, golf and swimming -- would be minimally affected. Those teams could retain current schedules, with the exception of travel to conference championships.

Bobinski said schedules can be adjusted outside the conference so that teams play closer to home, compensating for miles traveled inside the A-10.

"We don't fly every time we go on these trips, either," he said. "There are times when we have kids on fairly long bus trips."

Bobinski said Xavier improved its academic support for athletes because of time lost in transit but that technology allows them do class work from laptops almost anywhere.

"I don't know what would happen if you're on the bus for 13 hours to Kingston, R.I., or Amherst, Mass.," said Steve Farley, in his 21st year as Butler's baseball coach. "When is it a bus trip and when is it a flight?"

Employees in the athletic department said there hasn't been much office chatter about conference realignment.

In basketball, if not in geography, Butler is already closer to the A-10 than it is to its Horizon brethren. No Horizon team other than Butler has received an NCAA at-large bid since 1998. The A-10 had three at-large bids this year and 24 since 1998.

The Bulldogs' basketball budget of $3.5 million was 35 percent more than that of the Horizon's second-largest, Milwaukee. Butler would rank fourth in the A-10, led by Richmond's $4 million.

A 16-team league split into divisions could ameliorate costs for all schools.

Even without divisions in a 16-game basketball schedule, Butler could be assigned annual road games at Xavier (112 miles), Dayton (112), St. Louis (243) and Duquesne (359 to Pittsburgh). Those are routine Horizon trips, potentially leaving the Bulldogs with only two long trips of two games each.

Five A-10 schools once belonged to the MCC or Horizon: Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis, Duquesne and La Salle.

Miller said additional travel costs were "insignificant," compared to the benefit of playing in a strong basketball conference.

Bobinski said he was "not trying to poach the Horizon League" but that Butler was "a natural" to join Xavier in the Atlantic 10.

Atlantic 10 vs. Horizon League
What would it cost Butler to move from the Horizon League to the Atlantic 10? The Star received detailed data on athletic budgets from four public universities -- two in the Atlantic 10 (Massachusetts and Charlotte) and two in the Horizon League (Milwaukee and Wright State) -- to answer that question. (As a private school, Butler does not have to divulge such information.) Below is the primary financial benefit and detriment if Butler were to make the switch.

Revenue
Category   UMass   Charlotte   Milwaukee   Wright State
a-Conf. share   $1,315,984   $960,289   $660,200   $633,166
Total travel expenses
Category   UMass   Charlotte   Milwaukee   Wright State
b-Total travel   $1,884,563   $1,261,238   $1,043,715   $826,016
a -- NCAA/conference distributions, including all tournament revenue.

b -- Excludes $506,281 in UMass travel costs for football.

Offline ysuindy

  • Emperor Penguin
  • *****
  • Posts: 4306
    • View Profile
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2012, 11:28:19 AM »
In the paper, but not on-line are two charts - one shows the mileage from Indy to each Horizon League and A-10 school.  the other show's the men's basketball budgets.  Here are the budgets:

Atlantic 10

Richmond $4,056,940
Xavier 3,929,624
George Washington 3,480,829
Fordham 3,154,182
Temple 3,089,720
St. Jospeh's 3,020,790
St. Louis 2,951,351
Duquesne 2,928,573
Rhode Island 2,816,066
UMass  2,806,835
LaSalle 2,364,336
Charlotte  2,275,714
St. Bonaventure 1,592,420

Horizon League

Butler 3,541,122
Milwaukee 2,318,461
Detroit  2,307,818
UIC  2,137,097
Cleveland St  2,085,424
Wright State  1,990,710
Loyola  1,790,583
Valparaiso 1,645,652
Green Bay  1,409,931
YSU  1,022,407

Offline ysuindy

  • Emperor Penguin
  • *****
  • Posts: 4306
    • View Profile
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2012, 11:37:49 AM »
Indy Star reporting today (April 30) that the move is on hold

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120430/SPORTS0605/120430022/Butler-Bulldogs-Atlantic-10-relationship-hold

If Butler is indeed changing conferences, the move is on hold.

Butler athletic department leaders met today to discuss possible Atlantic 10 membership, but no announcement was made afterward and none appears imminent.

For weeks, there has been speculation that Butler would leave the Horizon League and join the Atlantic 10 to enhance its men’s basketball program.

Butler, if moving to the Atlantic 10, would not play in the conference until the 2013-14 school year. Temple will be in the Atlantic 10 in 2012-13 before joining the Big East.

An Indianapolis Star study published Sunday indicated the move could cost Butler about $500,000 a year in increased travel expenses for all sports.

Offline ysuindy

  • Emperor Penguin
  • *****
  • Posts: 4306
    • View Profile
Re: Butler expressing interest in Atlantic 10 per ESPN's Andy Katz
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2012, 11:40:29 AM »
Unless there is any magic to an announcement today or tomorrow as far as notice Butler needs to give to leave the Horizon League, I am not sure there is anything here that would make the move less likely.  I believe these moves are typically always effective on July 1.